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  • I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

    Hi all,
    I'm using 4/3 cameras for more than 2 years now. Started with 510, bought E3 later. After almost a year with E3 I realized that I'm shooting less and less and not taking E3 with me if I'm not sure if there will be something worth capturing. This somehow always was ending with situation "darling, could I please use your e510 for a moment" since 510 is used by my wife now... So, after some heavy thinking, I'm selling off my E3 (kind of back to roots - small and light kit, that's what 4/3 is all about). The idea was - I'll buy "something really light" for situations described above and "something lighter than E3" for situations when 'I'm sure that I'll shoot'.

    So I bought Panasonic GF1 with 20mm pancake as "something really light". I still have E3 and e510 so made couple of comparison shots (ambient daylight coming from left side). Oh man, it confused me!
    Look at attachments - GF1 shot is so nice compared to E3 and so much better than e510. All shot from the same place at 20mm, focused at TV, E-3 - iso800 f/2.9 1/30s (NF low), 510 - iso800 f/3.2 1/25s (NF low),
    gf1 - iso800 f/1.7 1/80s (NF standard), all at P mode (auto).

    Now to the point - I am still thinking what "something lighter than E3"could be... Thought about e620, but after seeing what GF1 is doing I'm not sure anymore. The question now is - go for 4/3 or m4/3... Is it just Gf1 with 20mm f/1.7 makes so nice pictures, or can I expect this from all m4/3 like G1?

    I shoot mostly landscapes, sports (my son plays football) and usual family life documenting. Would it be OK to use GF1 with panasonic 45-200 lens? Would it focus OK shooting football game? Or should I think about G1? If I choose m4/3 then maybe it makes no sense to buy G1 since I already have GF1, maybe just m4/3 lenses then.... Or forget m4/3 and grab e620 or something like that? Keeping in mind that I still have 70-300, 14-54 and FL50 - whatever 4/3 oly seems to be a logical decision, but when I see what GF1 did in auto mode - I'm not so sure...

    So, any opinion which might help to clean my messy thoughts is appreciated.

    Thanks!
    surfer
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

    not sure what your confusion is really -

    GF1 is 2 years along from the E3 and nearly 4 from the 510. 620/30 are capable of similar output, as are the E=P1 and E=P2.

    43 isn't just about size - but if that is what it's about for you then you are probably better off switching to m43 completely.

    except - forget about the football, unless you are shooting video...

    you don't mention video, and then again you don't mention viefinders or weatherproof either. Not really sure why you got an E3, but it's clearly not suited to you. You can sell both your 43 lenses for little loss (assuming you bought wisely) and are probably best simply switching to m43. The FL50 should continue to work fine.

    back to the football - you aren't going to get much with your existing lenses anyway so switch to video
    E-P1, OMD E-M1, E400
    7-14/12-50/12-60/14-42/17/30(1.4)/35-100/40-150/45/50/50-200
    ec14/ec20/ex25/MMF-1, MMF-3/ RF11/FL50Rs/FL36R/SHV-1/AC-1/AC-2

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    • #3
      Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

      I don't care for video.
      Football was OK with e3 + 70-300 or e510, usually weather is nice, so 70-300 is fast enough. Of course, I like viewfinder of e3. I haven't tried to shoot action with EVF or LCD only and long zoom. Any experience from someone? I could expect that m4/3 with another focussing mechanism is not that good like dslr, but is it usable?
      At the end size is not everything, I'd like some quality as well, so to speak compromise. If only size would matter then I knew the answer already.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

        put the 70-300 on the E3 and switch to live view and shoot your football like that to get an idea of the difference.

        you must have way more light than me - I will be shooting this afternoon and am expecting 1/320th, iso 2000, f2.8 which is marginal for shutter speed and uncomfortable on ISO (for the 3)
        E-P1, OMD E-M1, E400
        7-14/12-50/12-60/14-42/17/30(1.4)/35-100/40-150/45/50/50-200
        ec14/ec20/ex25/MMF-1, MMF-3/ RF11/FL50Rs/FL36R/SHV-1/AC-1/AC-2

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

          I don't think that shooting in live view on E3 is the same as shooting with micro 4/3 where EVF or LCD is standard.
          Anyone has some experience shooting action with m4/3 (like G1, GF1, etc.) + longer zoom?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

            I'm not much of an action shooter, but on the few occasions I tried to get action pictures of our dog I wasn't very successful with the G1 + 45-200. Focussing doesn't keep up with a dog running at all and I find the blackout period after a shot way too long, you hardly see what you're shooting when in burst mode.

            I got better results with a Nikon D200 + 70-300 which is a comparable setup lens-wise. Even when taking family snapshots, the G1's long blackout after a shot often leaves me with the feeling that I don't know what I have shot. Having said that, I prefer using the G1 for snapshots because it's focussing is more accurate and because I can use the 1.7/20 on it for taking pics without flash. And in situations where you can prefocus doing action shots, the G1 is OK, just like my old Nikon F3.

            All this made me decide to have two camera systems alongside each other: a DSLR for action (and in my case macro, because I have beautiful old Nikon glass) and the G1 outfit for everything else. If you can, it would be wise to keep the DSLR outfit at least for a while until you are sure that you can live without it.
            Best regards, Ad.

            Pictures | Equipment | Minolta collection | Other lenses

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            • #7
              Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

              I wouldn't consider a G1 as well as a GF1, they are just too similar. Sounds like you need a DSLR for action shots, at least until MFT has developed a little further. If you really can't live with the weight and bulk of the E-3 then the E-620 must be a prime candidate but personally I'd retain the E-3 for now.
              View my ebook, The Light Fantastic, at: http://store.blurb.co.uk/ebooks/3026...ight-fantastic

              John

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              • #8
                Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                Hi Surfer,
                I am a bit confused, too, when I look at your examples. You have them labeled "noise".....which makes me wonder if you made prints to compare. Printing will often change the perception of noise.
                Besides the noise and some variations in exposure, I see some differences in tonality that, for me, favor the E-3 sample and I think they would carry over to a print.
                Your points about not dragging the big gun around are well taken, but if action and tele are involved, the Live View Cameras may be a challenge, since continuous auto focus with them is handycapped at present. I'd check that out first, if you can.
                Bob

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                • #9
                  Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                  no, I haven't printed them - just quick shoot and compare on screen excersise. Exposure was automatic, just to see what camera thinks is OK in that sittuation. I was actually surprised how well little GF1 did, even if I forgot to lower NF to lower level...
                  Regarding CF - it was always a trouble to me, especially on E3 (was somehow better on e510), I'm getting better results using SF.
                  Anyways, it seems that m4/3 it is still not there for action shots using tele, so I'm leaning more and more towards e620.
                  Many thanks to all for replies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                    Originally posted by surfer View Post
                    Regarding CF - it was always a trouble to me, especially on E3 (was somehow better on e510), I'm getting better results using SF.

                    Check out my posts on how to set up C-AF on the E-3 - it works very well, but not if you have the wrong settings!

                    In a nutshell:

                    - Turn off 'C-AF Lock' (default is on)
                    - Set 'Release Priority C-AF' to off (default is on)
                    - I use single centre point (reacts the fastest and essential for fast moving things coming towards you) - diamond pattern is okay if you are having trouble doing a smooth pan. All points for very fast moving things in the sky (no distracting things to throw the AF off).
                    - Use 'L' mode, set to 4fps rather than 'H' - more CPU for the camera to concentrate on focussing rather than taking shots
                    - Shoot raw ONLY (not with JPEG) - lower CPU in generating JPG image results in more CPU for focussing

                    I guarantee your keeper rate will be much better!

                    Andy
                    Olympus E-M1 ZD 7-14 f4, 300 f2.8, PL 25 f1.4D
                    mZuiko 12-40 f2.8 Pro, 60 f2.8, 40-150 f2.8 Pro
                    EC-14, EC-20, HLD-7
                    Metz 58 AF-1&2 , Manfrotto 441, Gimbal Head, Velbon Neopod 74


                    Gallery: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy

                    Website: 361photography.com 361wild.com

                    "Oly_OM" @ e_group

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                      Originally posted by AndyElliott View Post
                      - Turn off 'C-AF Lock' (default is on)
                      - Set 'Release Priority C-AF' to off (default is on)
                      I never knew about these options, Andy. Could you explain them a bit more, and what they do? I want to try this, as I don't usually use C-AF because it doesn't work so great on my E-3 (and Pen), but I know you get really great results with all your birds in flight and what-not.
                      Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

                      cyclopsphoto.ca

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                      • #12
                        Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                        Originally posted by Ned View Post
                        I never knew about these options, Andy. Could you explain them a bit more, and what they do? I want to try this, as I don't usually use C-AF because it doesn't work so great on my E-3 (and Pen), but I know you get really great results with all your birds in flight and what-not.
                        Ned

                        Let's take this off to a new topic as it is getting a bit off the original topic...

                        I'll start a new thread shortly.

                        Andy
                        Olympus E-M1 ZD 7-14 f4, 300 f2.8, PL 25 f1.4D
                        mZuiko 12-40 f2.8 Pro, 60 f2.8, 40-150 f2.8 Pro
                        EC-14, EC-20, HLD-7
                        Metz 58 AF-1&2 , Manfrotto 441, Gimbal Head, Velbon Neopod 74


                        Gallery: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy

                        Website: 361photography.com 361wild.com

                        "Oly_OM" @ e_group

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                          The C-AF distillation is here: http://www.fourthirds-user.com/forum...ead.php?t=6132

                          Andy
                          Olympus E-M1 ZD 7-14 f4, 300 f2.8, PL 25 f1.4D
                          mZuiko 12-40 f2.8 Pro, 60 f2.8, 40-150 f2.8 Pro
                          EC-14, EC-20, HLD-7
                          Metz 58 AF-1&2 , Manfrotto 441, Gimbal Head, Velbon Neopod 74


                          Gallery: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy

                          Website: 361photography.com 361wild.com

                          "Oly_OM" @ e_group

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                            Originally posted by surfer View Post
                            Now to the point - I am still thinking what "something lighter than E3"could be... Thought about e620, but after seeing what GF1 is doing I'm not sure anymore. The question now is - go for 4/3 or m4/3... Is it just Gf1 with 20mm f/1.7 makes so nice pictures, or can I expect this from all m4/3 like G1?

                            Hey Surfer,

                            Having studied the sample shots carefully, I can't fault the E3 for picture quality. It's a much warmer shot and the tones are more realistic and far superior, IMHO, to the other shots.

                            As someone else has already stated, the GF1, pen1&2, E620 & E30 are, sensor wise, further down the development track then the E3 so noise will be better on those bodies, but as far as image quality goes, I think the E3 is by far the superior shot.

                            I was suprised at the lack of quality of the 510, but on closer inspection, it does look slightly out of focus. As a 510 owner, I can get much sharper shots then the one you took. Not sure it is a fair comparison as to image quality. As for noise, the GF1 would walk all over it.

                            As far as weight and size go; I have an E3 with a battery pak and, as a nature photographer, I use my 50-200swd more than other lenses and with this setup its a beast, but I wouldn't swap it for my sons Canon 5DII. The quality of the glass and the colour tones I get with the E3 blow away anything that I have seen so far. Other brands have features that the Oly doesn't, but image quality...none can better it IMHO.

                            You may well be better off with a m4/3 but consider wisely, I don't think you will get the action shots you want without a DLSR.

                            Tough decision :\
                            ------------------------------------------------------------
                            E3, E510, 50-200SWD, 14-54 Mk1, 35mm Macro, 14-42 Kit, 200mm & 300mm legacys, HDL-4 & Manfrotto tripod & head.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I'm a bit confused. Advice, please...

                              I had the E-3 and recently went to the E-620, for the same reasons of size and weight as you mention. I've not been disappointed, and I'm back to using the camera more and more, which is why I went to Olympus from Canon 5D in the first place.
                              I did try the G1, but for reasons I cannot truly put my finger on, only excuses, couldn't get on with it.
                              Stephen - www.flickr.com/photos/argyllphotos
                              Olympus OM-D E-M1, E-M5, Zenza Bronica, and an ever-changing nest of lenses

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