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  • #31
    Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

    Originally posted by Ian View Post
    . . . We live in a golden era of camera development - the variety and features available are amazing. But there is no perfect camera for everyone. It's just the same for Fujifilm - the X-series cameras have excellent sensors but there is a limited range of lenses, focusing is slow and the cameras are relatively large. That's fine for some but not for all.

    Ian
    Thank you for reminding us of this, Ian. For all the complaints we hear/read/think about our cameras and the currently available models, the image quality produced by today's mirroless and SLR cameras is almost universally fansastic. Sensors have improved immensely over the years, and continue to do so. We have reached (or passed) the point at which lenses often become the limiting factor, especially in terms of resolution.

    This is one area more area in which I have a comment for all of the camera manufacturers. They do their customers a terrible disservice by selling 16+ meagapixel cameras with cheap kit lenses. It's obviously done for cost reasons, as many people balk at the idea of having to spend (for example) $500 for a lens to put on a $700 camera. But the resolving power of a $100 kit lens is so poor that the capabilities of the $700 camera are largely wasted. It makes no sense to go to such effort to design and manufacture top-notch sensors only to put cheap glass in front of them. People are buying 20 MP cameras, but only getting 8 MP (and sometimes even less!)worth of resolution from them because of the kit lenses. This is a message than needs to be explained to consumers. Maybe the manufacturers can have some influence. Wouldn't they prefer to sell products that best show off their cameras' image quality?

    - Hal -
    A Still Mind - Photography, Music, Meditation, Ministry - www.astillmind.net
    Olympus E-M5; Panasonic-Leica DG Summilux 25mm; Zuiko 12-60 SWD, 50-200 SWD; Sigma 105 Macro; Rokinon (Samyang) 7.5mm fisheye; Olympus 8/1.8 PRO fisheye; FL-50R; Giottos MT-8361 tripod with Gitzo GH2780QR ballhead.

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    • #32
      Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

      Actually, the lens base for Fuji X cameras is being expanded slowly and the kit lens [18-55] on the X-E1 is top notch as it seems all Fuji lenses are, no compromises with them.
      A small lens base would not be my reason for not investing in a different brand, like the vast majority of people, i'm not a Pro demanding a huge range of lenses.
      Hal, your critisism of the expensive camera with a cheap under performing kit lens are well founded but a bit out of date. Check out the review of the Sony 18-55 SAM 11 on Photozone, and also the latest Nikon Kit lens.
      They were all forced to improve kit lens performance because of the poor reviews they were getting and they could not afford not to.
      Early Olympus kit lenses were just as bad.
      Check out the 'Lenstip' review of the Nikon 18-105 kit lens, superb performance for the price.
      Actually some manufacturers have gone in reverse to save money and make things more compact, for example the Panasonic 14-45 'kit' lens is superb, but the later 14-42 not as good although still a decent performer.

      The 12 to ?? kit lens supplied with the OMD E-M5 is only an average performer, nothing special.
      I think Canikon have addressed this anomaly, and Sony never had to, they were great from the start. As for Pentax, difficult one that, Hoya were improving things until Ricoh took over.

      Its lens performance on high MP count FF cameras that is causing concern because none so far are doing justice to the sensors.
      Pete

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      • #33
        Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

        Does Olympus have any plan to improve C-AF or low light AF? Current best EP-5 still lag C-AF speed and good tracking capability according to recent reviews. Any plan to even increase the mega pixel? I know they said 12MP was good enough before. I hope they won't say they same about 16MP this time.

        Joe
        E-M1/E-5 / E-500 / OM-1n / FL-50 / OM 50-250 / OM 50 1.8 / 12-60 / 18-180 / 70-300 / 50-200 SWD / EX25 / EC20

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        • #34
          Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

          Originally posted by David M View Post
          Given Olympus have abandoned 4/3 lens development could they resurrect their OM lens tooling and build some of their classic primes in Nikon mount?
          Haha! Are you sure about that?

          Ian
          Founder/editor
          Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
          Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
          Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
          Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)
          Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
          Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
          Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/

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          • #35
            Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

            There is one thing that all these underwater (tough) cameras lack. A simple waterproof socket that would allow a cable to be attached that streams the image and allows shutter activation. I have had to make my own.

            It can be used for many different underwater shoots, where the camera is mounted on a monopod and simply held underwater. The live view is sent to a battery powered TV and the shutter is a simple 2 position switch.

            The image possibilities are many and various...
            Graham

            Keep smiling, it gets folk wondering what you've been up to

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            • #36
              Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

              I suspect it would be difficult to go above 16mp on a m4/3 sensor. The most I have seen was 18mp on the GH2 but that was for aspect ratio changes. I think they would need to develop a whole new sensor.

              My question is, is it necessary and do Olympus need to be in the pixel 'race' to survive.
              Nikon only a few years ago stated they could see no advantage in going beyond 12mp, but look where they are now.

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              • #37
                Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                Originally posted by Ian View Post
                Haha! Are you sure about that?

                Ian
                Hmmm . . . do I sense a hint/secret/restless cat trying to escape from its bag? It's been years since Olympus released a new 4/3 lens. Are there really more coming? I had also assumed that lens development had completely shifted to MFT.

                - Hal -
                A Still Mind - Photography, Music, Meditation, Ministry - www.astillmind.net
                Olympus E-M5; Panasonic-Leica DG Summilux 25mm; Zuiko 12-60 SWD, 50-200 SWD; Sigma 105 Macro; Rokinon (Samyang) 7.5mm fisheye; Olympus 8/1.8 PRO fisheye; FL-50R; Giottos MT-8361 tripod with Gitzo GH2780QR ballhead.

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                • #38
                  Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                  Originally posted by Ian View Post
                  OK, this is one of those questions that Olympus will only unequivocally respond to in its own time. We have had plenty of hints that there will be action on this this autumn. Pure speculation could be that's why I'm going to Japan - but beyond that there is nothing that can be said officially until Olympus chooses to make an official announcement. I have no privileged information about new product.

                  But let's look at this logically and realistically - Olympus will certainly be interested in what you think so any particular points I will be able present to them directly. Your comments will be read!

                  Of course you can make a grand assumption that an E-5 successor is in the pipeline. I will try to get answers to your questions about this; I expect the best case scenario is that I will get answers under a time restriction so they can't be published until Olympus makes an official announcement. Worst-case, no answers at all.

                  Ian
                  This is the question on many a Olympus owners lips and I can understand that until there is a camera to launch we may not hear anything. As an owner of E-5, 2 E-3 and a number of 4/3 lens I am certainly ready for the new 4/3 body. m4/3 have the OMD superb as it is it will not work with the Top Pro lens I have. Mark Thackara from Olympus did say at Focus there will be a new body for 4/3 so heres hoping sooner rather than later.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                    Originally posted by whatapicture View Post
                    Actually, the lens base for Fuji X cameras is being expanded slowly and the kit lens [18-55] on the X-E1 is top notch as it seems all Fuji lenses are, no compromises with them.
                    A small lens base would not be my reason for not investing in a different brand, like the vast majority of people, i'm not a Pro demanding a huge range of lenses.
                    Hal, your critisism of the expensive camera with a cheap under performing kit lens are well founded but a bit out of date. Check out the review of the Sony 18-55 SAM 11 on Photozone, and also the latest Nikon Kit lens.
                    They were all forced to improve kit lens performance because of the poor reviews they were getting and they could not afford not to.
                    Early Olympus kit lenses were just as bad.
                    Check out the 'Lenstip' review of the Nikon 18-105 kit lens, superb performance for the price.
                    Actually some manufacturers have gone in reverse to save money and make things more compact, for example the Panasonic 14-45 'kit' lens is superb, but the later 14-42 not as good although still a decent performer.

                    The 12 to ?? kit lens supplied with the OMD E-M5 is only an average performer, nothing special.
                    I think Canikon have addressed this anomaly, and Sony never had to, they were great from the start. As for Pentax, difficult one that, Hoya were improving things until Ricoh took over.

                    Its lens performance on high MP count FF cameras that is causing concern because none so far are doing justice to the sensors.
                    Pete
                    I have based my conclusions on the latest lens tests by DxO labs. In terms of resolution, I'm specifically looking at their "P-Mpix" measurement. I would never suggest using only a single metric to judge any product, but this measure of lens resolving power seems very valid and useful. The name means "perceptual megapixels," described by DxO as "The number of P-Mpix of a camera/lens combination is equal to the pixel count of a sensor that would give the same sharpness if tested with a perfect theoretical optics, as the camera/lens combination under test." The full explanation can be found here: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/...l-can-help-you

                    Looking at a selection of kit lenses:
                    The Panasonic 14-42 3.5-5.6 II scores 7 P-Mpix when used on a GH-2. This means that it produces resolution equivalent to what an ideal lens would on a 7 MP camera. It's not dreadful for a kit lens, but still provides only half of the 16 MP that the GH-2 sensor is capable of. (DxO have not tested the 14-45 lens, so we can't compare to see if it's truly better on this measure.)

                    On to Olympus, DxO have not tested the 14-42, but they have tested the 12-50, which scores a depressingly low 4 P-Mpix on the GH-2. That's only 25% of the theoretical maximum resolution.

                    The latest Canon kit lens, the 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM, scores 9 P-Mpix on an EOS 700D. Like the Panasonic, not dreadful, but only half of the 18 MP of the 700D's sensor. The older Canon 18-55 kit lens scored identically on this measure.

                    Moving to Nikon land, their latest 18-55 scores a measley 6 P-Mpix on the 16 MP D7000. The considerably more expensive 18-70 scores 7 P-Mpix. DxO haven't tested the 18-105 on the D7000, but on the 12MP D300s it scores 7-P-Mpix, so I would expect about 8 on the D7000. None of these are especially good performances. In the mirrorless arena, the Nikon 10-30 registers a pathetic 3 P-Mpix on the 10MP V1.

                    As for the Fuji 18-55, DxO have not tested it yet. But keep in mind that it retails for $700, so it is in a completely different league than the kit lenses described above.

                    It is clear from this metric that the cheap kit lenses are wasting much of the resolution of today's sensors. So I stand by my position that camera manufacturers are doing their customers a disservice by offering cameras with so many pixels and such poor kit lenses. They lead consumers to believe that they are getting 16, 18, or more MP worth of resolution when the provided lens can only provide the equivalent of 4-9 MP.

                    - Hal -
                    A Still Mind - Photography, Music, Meditation, Ministry - www.astillmind.net
                    Olympus E-M5; Panasonic-Leica DG Summilux 25mm; Zuiko 12-60 SWD, 50-200 SWD; Sigma 105 Macro; Rokinon (Samyang) 7.5mm fisheye; Olympus 8/1.8 PRO fisheye; FL-50R; Giottos MT-8361 tripod with Gitzo GH2780QR ballhead.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                      Hi Ian

                      Below is a list of things I wish Olympus would provide in the near future. It would be useful to hear any feedback on these:

                      1) Release a range of high-end micro-four thirds zooms

                      Faster something like:
                      • 12-60 f/2.0
                      • 50-200 f/2.8

                      Better optics that do not rely on correction in software (see note 2 below).

                      2) Can Olympus work closer with Adobe and other software companies?

                      E.g. release full API to ORF raw file so that lens distortion, custom white balance etc can be read by Adobe Camera Raw /Lightroom.

                      Give information to Adobe so that they can add Olympus camera profiles in Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom. Why is Olympus the obvious missing camera manufacturer in the list of camera profiles provided by Adobe?

                      3) Are any improvements to Olympus Viewer software planned:

                      E.g.
                      • Support tethered shooting.
                      • Support use of a side-car style file for storing raw edits.
                      • Display point of focus option like the green square when you view images on the back of the camera.

                      4) Better continuous auto-focus.

                      Any news that can be shared on when this will be available on Olympus micro four-thirds?

                      5) In built GPS.

                      This would be useful.

                      6) Better camera menus

                      For eaxmple:
                      • Ability to give meaningful names to the myset settings
                      • Ability to save camera configuration to SD card

                      7) Are any more micro four-thirds USB port accessories planned?
                      • e.g. a Wi-Fi PenPal?

                      8) Please include the lens hood in the price of the lens.

                      9) Will all new micro four-thirds lenses to be available in black at no extra cost?

                      10) Are Olympus planning a wireless flash system for micro-four thirds?

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                      • #41
                        Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                        I don't take a lot of notice of DXOmark, they are just lab tests, its the real world pictures that are important to me.
                        I have many friends in my club with Canons and Nikons who are perfectly happy with their kit lenses and many have won club comps and had pictures published from these kit lenses, Some of their work has been outstanding, again real world.

                        This thread is running off topic.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                          I too would like answers re 4/3 I have stuck with it and added quality lenses to my bag, I particularly love getting BIF shots, which I am getting with my current gear but see canikon users doing it far easier with their tracking systems. So do I switch now which I would prefer not to do, or hold on and risk my quality lenses being almost worthless if Olympus ditch anything for us 4/3 users. So far I find the feel of the m4/3 body too small for me, yet the Panasonic G bodies sit quite nice in the hand.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                            I might be tempted to buy the next E 5+ if there was an interface to add on a GPS locator (perhaps into the hot shoe) that would enable latitude and longitude coordinates to be stored in the images EXIF information

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                            • #44
                              Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                              OLYMPUS PEN Lite E-PL6

                              SO: Why can't we have it over here
                              Graham

                              Keep smiling, it gets folk wondering what you've been up to

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Questions for Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds camera industry

                                Originally posted by DerekW View Post
                                I might be tempted to buy the next E 5+ if there was an interface to add on a GPS locator (perhaps into the hot shoe) that would enable latitude and longitude coordinates to be stored in the images EXIF information
                                The E-P5 has wifi and the Olympus app that works with this (iOS and Android smartphones and tablets) will use your device's GPS to geotag images. It would be surprising to me if this feature was omitted from future models.

                                Ian
                                Founder/editor
                                Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
                                Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
                                Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
                                Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)
                                Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
                                Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
                                Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/

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