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Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

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  • 420
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by throt View Post
    In some cases the 2nd curtain flash would work well - you can reduce exposure time to keep background lights under control and flash will make foreground bright
    Haven't thought about this so far. Will have to see what can I do with comparatively close objects and an external flash.

    Originally posted by photo_owl View Post
    It sometimes seems as if the worlds against a shot - here you don't have enough DR to capture both colour in the highlights and anything in the shadows. Pushing the shadows in post will simply create 'noise' because you don't have enough (any) data in those bits.

    The good news is that after you have done your 'proper' exposure at 100 and long etc you can probably get a good exposure for the highlights with 400 (but then again it's probably not worth the saving in shutter speed).

    I suspect you need at least 5 stops to cover off the brightest bits - and then again this is goign to depend on the ambient levels (which is the only alternative approach without multiple exposures - shoot with sufficient ambient that the total DR is covered!)

    Shame I don't commute to town anymore or I could lend you a decent tripod - I seem to have acquired far to many over the years! What are you using at the moment?
    I have a Hama Star 75 now /125 cm. when fully extended which is approximately 4 ft. 1 / and will probably get an Hama Star 63 /166 cm. fully extended which is approximately 5 ft. 5 / in order to fix the issue with tripods for the moment.

    Originally posted by Ians Tata View Post
    I think that you have done a marvelous job and I can understand why you wanted this shot. It is a great image and as for the fence... I like it in the shot and ,in my humble opinion, it might be a little less without it.

    Jeff
    Thanks. That fence is a little higher than you could normally expect. I guess it had to be in the picture after all. We will see what will happen with the new tripod. I'm starting to think that 166 cm. /approx 5 ft. 5 / is not going to be high enough, too.

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  • Ians Tata
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    I think that you have done a marvelous job and I can understand why you wanted this shot. It is a great image and as for the fence... I like it in the shot and ,in my humble opinion, it might be a little less without it.

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • photo_owl
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by 420 View Post
    Thank you, that's very kind of you. However, I'm not quite happy with the overblown lights of the buildings on the far side but if I reduce the exposure the picture would be underexposed so I couldn't find a better solution and agreed on a compomise with the overexposed lights in order to have well exposed whole image.
    As for the HDR I will give it a try next time when I take night photos.
    It sometimes seems as if the worlds against a shot - here you don't have enough DR to capture both colour in the highlights and anything in the shadows. Pushing the shadows in post will simply create 'noise' because you don't have enough (any) data in those bits.

    The good news is that after you have done your 'proper' exposure at 100 and long etc you can probably get a good exposure for the highlights with 400 (but then again it's probably not worth the saving in shutter speed).

    I suspect you need at least 5 stops to cover off the brightest bits - and then again this is goign to depend on the ambient levels (which is the only alternative approach without multiple exposures - shoot with sufficient ambient that the total DR is covered!)

    Shame I don't commute to town anymore or I could lend you a decent tripod - I seem to have acquired far to many over the years! What are you using at the moment?

    Leave a comment:


  • throt
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    In some cases the 2nd curtain flash would work well - you can reduce exposure time to keep background lights under control and flash will make foreground bright

    Leave a comment:


  • 420
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by photo_owl View Post
    OK - see what you are doing; and that's a great image.

    you are using all the DR available so forget pushing the exposure (to avoid having to push anything in post which is where noise gets created)

    iso 100 and expose as best you can (or even HDR...but not for an HDR look)
    Thank you, that's very kind of you. However, I'm not quite happy with the overblown lights of the buildings on the far side but if I reduce the exposure the picture would be underexposed so I couldn't find a better solution and agreed on a compomise with the overexposed lights in order to have well exposed whole image.
    As for the HDR I will give it a try next time when I take night photos.

    Originally posted by Alan Clogwyn View Post
    Indeed - the HDR process by default gives a very neutral contrast image. All my tonemapped images come from single shots, and all my 'smooth' photos are 7 shots HDR merged! I persoanlly think this is your best option for sunsets - you can't get enough dynamic range in a singleshot for them. Maybe get yourself a gorillapod and wrap it round that fence there?
    I was using a tripod there. Unfortunately it was my old tripod that simply is not high enough /even with the single rod extender which I prefer not to use as it seems to me to be affected by the wind if there is such/. That's why you see the fences. If I had a higher tripod they would not be in the picture.

    Leave a comment:


  • photo_owl
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    I think the tripod is in play already Alan!

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  • Alan Clogwyn
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by photo_owl View Post
    OK - see what you are doing; and that's a great image.

    you are using all the DR available so forget pushing the exposure (to avoid having to push anything in post which is where noise gets created)

    iso 100 and expose as best you can (or even HDR...but not for an HDR look)
    Indeed - the HDR process by default gives a very neutral contrast image. All my tonemapped images come from single shots, and all my 'smooth' photos are 7 shots HDR merged! I persoanlly think this is your best option for sunsets - you can't get enough dynamic range in a singleshot for them. Maybe get yourself a gorillapod and wrap it round that fence there?

    Leave a comment:


  • photo_owl
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    OK - see what you are doing; and that's a great image.

    you are using all the DR available so forget pushing the exposure (to avoid having to push anything in post which is where noise gets created)

    iso 100 and expose as best you can (or even HDR...but not for an HDR look)

    Leave a comment:


  • 420
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    OK, I'll switch the anti-shock to 3s.
    I'll have to experiment with EV increase and then post processing it. Doesn't this create noise? I have the feeling that I almost always get some noise in case that I edit a photo with Olympus Master so I only transform the raw image to JPEG or some other format. Usually this is a hidden noise in an underexposured photo but I have the feeling that some of the noise just comes out of nowhere.
    As for the stacking I will have to experiment there as I have not made that before.
    I am attaching a photo but that is from the first experiments, I am currently busy and will have to experiment further.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • photo_owl
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    MLU - antishake etc - is designed to let the relatively light camera stabilise after the mirror has flipped; that's why the 3 seconds. It's used for landscape shots but obviously has limited use if you are involving moving elements in your long exposures. At 10 secs you could also just stabilise the camera manually as you release the shutter and, quite frankly, the actual exposure contribution from any brief movement within the overall exposure will be tiny anyhow (which is why you haven't noticed it).

    You've got to ISO 100 through your experiments, this is where you should be shooting the 420 for these shots. You may get further benefits shooting RAW and increasing the EV adjustment by up to +1.3, then bringing the exposure back in post processing. If you have a relatively low DR in your shots (ie the exposure lattitude permits this without blowing any other elements) then this will also reduce noise in the shadows. Better still would be to take multiple exposures and stack them in post (this is not HDR) - as already suggested.

    Good luck and please post some output.

    Leave a comment:


  • 420
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by AndyBeeson View Post
    Hi, follow AndyElliott`s advice. Also why not try ISO 100 if you can keep your camera steady i.e. on a tripod or a solid surface or even resting on a bean bag. Also try F8 or F11 on a long exposure at ISO 100, making sure you have focused correctly first. Its very much trial and error. Try different shutter speeds at the same F number and ISO on Manual setting after all its digital and not like you`re wasting film. Remember if there isn`t any light (dark areas) you will get noise even at low ISO settings and that applies to any camera, full frame or whatever. Getting the exposure right and picking the scene/picture composition are crucial.
    You can always take several exposures for highlights and mid tones and shadows and merge them together to form an HDR (High Dynamic Range) picture but to do this you need to make sure your camera doesn`t move during the exposures.
    Above all have fun experimenting.
    Andrew.
    According to my experiments outside during nighttime /6 p.m./ the camera seems to like ISO 100 with long exposure /4 to 5 seconds/ most. Of course that's for static objects /bicycles passing by leave unwanted light "tails". I am still getting noise as you have suggested /which is quite irritating/.
    As for the HDR I guess that I'll leave it for the future. I still need to manage night photos during low light. So far I am trying the ISO 100 plus long exposures up to 10 seconds with camera based on a tripod and 2 seconds delay with the self-timer.
    As for the focusing I'm trying the C-AF+MF which has provided good results during my experiments. Any other variants for the focusing during low lights please do feel free to share.

    Originally posted by Ross View Post
    If you're using your camera on a tripod (especially a cheaper one with a plastic head) for slow exposures & you don't have a cable release, then the timer delay of 2 or 12 secs is necessary & also anti-shake for 3 secs (shutter delay) which is in the menu of an E410 & should be for the E420 too & at least the exposure won't be blurry from movement (assuming there is no breeze affecting the tripod).

    Yes, there is an anti-shock in E420. I finally found it. Until now I thought that it was optical stabilization of the whole camera /which the camera hasn't/ while in fact it appears to be a simple delay used to lower the negative impact of the mirror movement. Isn't 3 seconds too much? It was off until now and I believe that I have managed to catch some acceptable pictures without turning it on.
    Last edited by 420; 5th January 2011, 03:34 PM.

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  • AndyElliott
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Another option is to take two or more exposures and stack them in photoshop - noise should be considerably reduced.

    Andy

    Leave a comment:


  • Ross
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    If you're using your camera on a tripod (especially a cheaper one with a plastic head) for slow exposures & you don't have a cable release, then the timer delay of 2 or 12 secs is necessary & also anti-shake for 3 secs (shutter delay) which is in the menu of an E410 & should be for the E420 too & at least the exposure won't be blurry from movement (assuming there is no breeze affecting the tripod).

    Leave a comment:


  • AndyBeeson
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Hi, follow AndyElliott`s advice. Also why not try ISO 100 if you can keep your camera steady i.e. on a tripod or a solid surface or even resting on a bean bag. Also try F8 or F11 on a long exposure at ISO 100, making sure you have focused correctly first. Its very much trial and error. Try different shutter speeds at the same F number and ISO on Manual setting after all its digital and not like you`re wasting film. Remember if there isn`t any light (dark areas) you will get noise even at low ISO settings and that applies to any camera, full frame or whatever. Getting the exposure right and picking the scene/picture composition are crucial.
    You can always take several exposures for highlights and mid tones and shadows and merge them together to form an HDR (High Dynamic Range) picture but to do this you need to make sure your camera doesn`t move during the exposures.
    Above all have fun experimenting.
    Andrew.

    Leave a comment:


  • 420
    replied
    Re: Any advises for taking photos at ISO 1600 with E420 with kit lenses?

    Originally posted by AndyElliott View Post
    Make sure you have "Noise Reduction" set to 'ON' (as opposed to "Noise Filter") - this removes dark-frame noise. The camera typically will show the card access light flickering for a further time (about the same time as the exposure length). Try also anti-shock set to 3 seconds (does the E-420 have this??) - this delays the exposure till after the mirror has flipped by 3 seconds to reduce camera vibration on the tripod.

    Also, shoot in RAW so you can push the exposure as high as you dare (use the info button to check for highlight clipping - a little is okay as you can recover this from the RAW file, but obviously the sun is always going to be blown). This should help with shadow noise.

    The dynamic range of the 420 is pretty good - about a stop better than the 510 and 410, and not far off the E-3, E-30 and E-5, so it should be fine.

    Andy
    Currently the noise reduction is switched to AUTO which should turn the noise reduction on if a long exposure is used. The noise filter was set to standard as I expect to limit the ISO setting to 400 at all times.
    I do not know to have optical stabilization /anti-shock/ on E420. E520 has it.
    I will try with the delayed shutter - the options that I have are 2s and 12s though.
    I always shoot in RAW with this camera but will have to experiment with the exposure.
    I have made a few experimental photos at home at about 6 p.m. with the lights turned off and only the monitor illuminating the room on the side. The images that I received at ISO 800 appeared to be noisy no matter what I did /even at exposure of 10 seconds/. I have to try with the noise reduction placed at HIGH /it was at standard so far/ and also ISO 400 and below.


    Originally posted by Ians Tata View Post
    I would agree with Andy's suggestion with the delayed shutter. You can create a lot of movement when you press the shutter and it will blur the photo with a long exposure. This is a problem that is different from not hand holding steady as it is a shorter duration and at the begining of the exposure.



    Thanks, I actually considered myself very lucky with those. Fireworks with a 3.2second exposure while sitting in a small speedboat anchored in the harbor (Lake Erie). ISO 100 to prevent the fireworks from being blown-out at an exposure long enough to show them in all their glory.

    Jeff
    Thanks,
    I have to experiment with low ISO and long exposure. Perhaps this will eliminate some of the noise that I get during long exposures.

    Leave a comment:

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