Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
No, there is no noise filter mode on the G1 unless you use Film Mode.
I will be able to assess noise better by looking at the RAW files.
Ian
Actually, Standard mode is actually a film mode, so you can adjust noise reduction from there, but it was set to zero when I took the test shots. This is a 'middle' setting (you can adjust up or down from zero).
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
I'll need to look at the images on my calibrated monitor at home for a better assessment, but my view here at work generally agrees with some of the other comments. The E-3 definitely retains more highlight detail; but it appears that the G1 has more detail in the shadows. It may be that the ISO settings of the two cameras are not identically calibrated, so the same aperture/shutter speed ends up giving the G1 a little more exposure.
I also notice that the E-3 seems to lose some color going from 1600 to 3200; this is especially evident in the tones of the wood. The G1 doesn't appear to lose as much color saturation between the two ISOs. The L1 photo appears on the green side in comparison to the E-3 and G1, despite the identical WB setting.
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
Ian,
I ran a comparison on the Imaging Resource site (comparometer) between the E3 and G1 and at ISO800 and 1600 the results would agree with your test. The E-3 performed better in terms of noise and range, but will have to wait and see what the RAW files reveal.
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by timg
It looks to me like there's slightly more detail in the shadows on the G1... could it be that the ISO ratings are not quite on par with E3?
i.e. it's like the G1 is slightly over-exposing or E3 is slightly under-exposing for the same settings?
My impression is that the G1 overexposes by about a third of a stop compared to the E3. At ISO 1600 I could see little difference in terms of noise between the two cameras. At ISO 3200 the G1 may have a slight advantage over the E3 but I think we need to compare RAW files shot at absolutely identical exposures with identical shadow density. However, from this first impression, I don't think many of us will rush out to upgrade our E3's to future E-System cameras with the new sensor, based on the new sensor alone - there would need to be some other pretty remarkable improvements as well!
__________________ John Perriment
If you can't see a picture you're not looking hard enough
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
3200 ISO only
I find from viewing on the screen that the G1 appears to be have a mottled look similar to when applying noise reduction and visible with higher ISO files in other camera brands - - - the E3 is detailed (maybe too much) and exhibits the annoying and poor looking solid cover of white specks that I see in both my E-510 and E-3 high ISO images. I personally still do see some banding at 100% in the G1 images - it appears to be masked a little more by the masking over of noise that is happening in the jpegs. However . . .
. . . I decided to print out both files as 8x10 glossy prints using quality Epson materials, and of course there is no evidence of the solid layer of white specks from the E-3 file. On first look, the E3 print is more appealing (rich and crisp) to my eye - although there is little to choose between them at normal viewing distance when not using a critical eye. Both have roughly the same look of noise in print - with the G1 noise being blurred over a little more. The E3 print shows deeper shadows as is - with more detail and less contrast in the G1 shadows (probably all in the camera settings). In the E3 print, there are visible horizontal lines (banding) showing in the deepest shadow areas like the right side drape. Ironically I see some more subtle horizontal lines in the much lighter (compared to the E3) shadow areas of the right side drape on the G1 print - also with the bottom right side showing lines that I don't see readily in the E3 print. What doesn't work as well with me in the G1 print, is the mottled look (masking of noise) particularly in the drapes - but I think even overall - - - that makes the print look a little mushier than the ever so slightly noiser and more detailed E3 print.
Being that the image quality does not appear to have gained a huge amount of ground, the only real concern for me in a new sensor over my E3 would be elimination of banding at these high ISO's - which is done to some extent with this new sensor - - - but to me, not significantly enough to make a change on that point alone (at the expense of a mottle image resulting from mushing over the noise). Hopefully the G1 sensor is a step in the direction of getting rid of banding in future models while keeping crisp detail (probably not possible).
__________________
Watcher Creed - Nuff Talk - Take Pictures.
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Watcher
3200 ISO only
I find from viewing on the screen that the G1 appears to be have a mottled look similar to when applying noise reduction and visible with higher ISO files in other camera brands - - - the E3 is detailed (maybe too much) and exhibits the annoying and poor looking solid cover of white specks that I see in both my E-510 and E-3 high ISO images. I personally still do see some banding at 100% in the G1 images - it appears to be masked a little more by the masking over of noise that is happening in the jpegs. However . . .
. . . I decided to print out both files as 8x10 glossy prints using quality Epson materials, and of course there is no evidence of the solid layer of white specks from the E-3 file. On first look, the E3 print is more appealing (rich and crisp) to my eye - although there is little to choose between them at normal viewing distance when not using a critical eye. Both have roughly the same look of noise in print - with the G1 noise being blurred over a little more. The E3 print shows deeper shadows as is - with more detail and less contrast in the G1 shadows (probably all in the camera settings). In the E3 print, there are visible horizontal lines (banding) showing in the deepest shadow areas like the right side drape. Ironically I see some more subtle horizontal lines in the much lighter (compared to the E3) shadow areas of the right side drape on the G1 print - also with the bottom right side showing lines that I don't see readily in the E3 print. What doesn't work as well with me in the G1 print, is the mottled look (masking of noise) particularly in the drapes - but I think even overall - - - that makes the print look a little mushier than the ever so slightly noiser and more detailed E3 print.
Being that the image quality does not appear to have gained a huge amount of ground, the only real concern for me in a new sensor over my E3 would be elimination of banding at these high ISO's - which is done to some extent with this new sensor - - - but to me, not significantly enough to make a change on that point alone (at the expense of a mottle image resulting from mushing over the noise). Hopefully the G1 sensor is a step in the direction of getting rid of banding in future models while keeping crisp detail (probably not possible).
The E-3 JPEGs were take with the noise filter off. The G1 JPEGs were taken with the default Standard mode and that has the noise filter set to 0, or 'middle' setting - you can adjuts up or down from there. So there will be much more smoothing effects on the G1 file, as you have observed.
RAW file analysis will be more useful, though at the moment the only way to process G1 RAW files is in SilkyPix, which is not really as flexible as Adobe Camera RAW, for example.
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
how about a straight RAW to 16bit TIFF conversion with no adjustment?
Yes the G1 shot look overexposed vs the E3/L10 just looking at the patch of grass outside the window it is easier to see the grasses are brighter in the G1 shots
is the NF on the L10 on or off or what setting. It is interesting in the ISO 1600 shots both the G1 and the L10 lower left mid area by the windows handle, both the G1 and the L10 you can't see the curtain's thread detail as much as you can see it clearly in the E3.
but this can easily be from the NF blurring out the details
Re: Initial look at Lumix DMC-G1 high ISO performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitslizer
how about a straight RAW to 16bit TIFF conversion with no adjustment?
Yes the G1 shot look overexposed vs the E3/L10 just looking at the patch of grass outside the window it is easier to see the grasses are brighter in the G1 shots
is the NF on the L10 on or off or what setting. It is interesting in the ISO 1600 shots both the G1 and the L10 lower left mid area by the windows handle, both the G1 and the L10 you can't see the curtain's thread detail as much as you can see it clearly in the E3.
but this can easily be from the NF blurring out the details
Noise reduction on the L10 was set to zero (middle setting).
Yes, the G1 highlights were lighter, but I feel the mid-tones were about the same as the others?
Linear Mode
