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Thread: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by dingenus View Post
    Andy, as far as I know is a Sensor an analoge divice. There is no D-A--A-D conversion, only A-D.
    But you can made that in different ways. You can amplify the analoge signals before conversion or after that.
    I think that this is the difference between the G1 and the GH1.
    If you do analoge amplifying etcetera before conversion, that would adding noise and, maybe, interfere between channels.
    If you do the conversion (nearly) on chip
    and the amplifying after conversion, and do that well, there would be a cleaner signal.
    Both ways are usable and there are naturally more possible variationen.

    Regards, Dingenus

    CCD sensors are analogue, internally, CMOS sensors often have the A-D 'on chip'. I think you are right - Canon CMOS sensors appear to have the ADC on-chip, whereas most of the LiveMOS sensors would appear to have this on the processor (Truepic or Venus). The exception would appear to be the GH1 chip, where the ADC is on chip and hence the output is digital.

    I have not seen a LiveMOS chip architecture block diagram, but it would be interesting if you know of where one is.

    Andy
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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyElliott View Post
    CCD sensors are analogue, internally, CMOS sensors often have the A-D 'on chip'. I think you are right - Canon CMOS sensors appear to have the ADC on-chip, whereas most of the LiveMOS sensors would appear to have this on the processor (Truepic or Venus). The exception would appear to be the GH1 chip, where the ADC is on chip and hence the output is digital.

    I have not seen a LiveMOS chip architecture block diagram, but it would be interesting if you know of where one is.

    Andy
    HI Andy,
    This is an inteesting thread. I wonder if Ian is right in that the GH-1 sensor is a limited run to test out integrating video sensor ideas. Putting the A>D conversion on the sensor usually adds circuitry and reduces the fill factor. Making the sensor "back-lit", puts the circuitry behind the photon sensor, where there is more room for the A>D transistors and keeps the fill factor adaquate. This may be the sensor architecture of the future arriving. Shortening the path that the electrons have to go to become digital bits may be the needed ingredient for the streaming of high rez video images, that was never needed for stills. The side effect may be the improved stills IQ. As you said, a diagram would be nice to have.
    Bob

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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Here is a link to the Lumix site page on the IQ of the GH-1
    http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/s...igh_image.html
    From the description, it doesn't sound like a back-lit design. I couldn't find anything about Maicovision technologies.
    Bob

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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    Here is a link to the Lumix site page on the IQ of the GH-1
    http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/s...igh_image.html
    From the description, it doesn't sound like a back-lit design. I couldn't find anything about Maicovision technologies.
    Bob

    As I said earlier, it is unlikely to be back-lit. The circuitry that 'goes behind' is usually the photodiode amplifiers. The A-D bits, if they are on-chip, are not 'one per photosite',instead they would sit at the edge of the chip and read multiple signals serially.

    Andy
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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    With all the buzz and excitement these days about back-lit sensors, if Panasonic were using one I have to believe that they would make a lot of noise (pun intended ) about it. That feature alone would be a big selling point and generate a lot of interest in Panasonic and anyone using their sensors.

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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by hschnee View Post
    With all the buzz and excitement these days about back-lit sensors, if Panasonic were using one I have to believe that they would make a lot of noise (pun intended ) about it. That feature alone would be a big selling point and generate a lot of interest in Panasonic and anyone using their sensors.

    - Hal -
    How much benefit on an FT sensor might be a bit questionable. The circuitry that takes up space from the photosite in a traditional sensor is more or less of a fixed size, irrespective of the pixel size. So for a compact camera with a tiny sensor, the circuitry is a large proportion of the total pixel size - putting this behind, as in a 'back lit' design makes sense. For larger pixel sizes, the benefit is smaller. They also, currently, have issues to do with cooling as they make the sensor thicker, which doesn't help noise.

    Andy
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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    http://www.chipworks.com/seamark.asp...unctional&ns=1

    I think that you can find something more on this page.

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    Re: DxOMark suggest Four Thirds sensor technology has made a big leap in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by dingenus View Post
    http://www.chipworks.com/seamark.asp...unctional&ns=1

    I think that you can find something more on this page.
    Thanks!

    Andy
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