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CELESTAR
18th December 2008, 12:49 AM
Good day.
I am a potential new Olympus user and currently is about to sell of my D300, Sigma 70-200 and 50/1.4, among many others.
I need some advice on either I should go for E3 or waiting for E-30. I consider myself a serious non-professional level and in my lucky case, money is not a consideration. (In Taiwan where I resides, E-3brand new pricing is tumbling like the stock market-why?)
I welcome any suggestion to help me to make a decision. I have made up my mind on choice of lenses. It is only the camera body that I am having some 'sleepless night' Thanks much.:\

bilzmale
18th December 2008, 04:59 AM
I have the E-3 and prefer it to the E-30 but it may serve you well.

Barr1e
18th December 2008, 06:50 PM
Hi Celestar -

I too have an E-3 but I rather like the E-30 having had the opportunity of using it twice now, the second time under studio conditions which gave the pix very good results especially when using the 'pop' settings.
However, if you were to ask which one I would choose I think it would be the E-3 on one hand and the E-30 in the other.

A difficult choice to make - but the E-3 is a really great camera IMHO.

Regards. Barr1e

Robert Watcher
18th December 2008, 08:01 PM
I'm not going to get rid of my E-3 for an E-30 even if it is better. I already have invested in it and it has a few years of use in it yet. I'm also not going to get rid of my E-510 for the same reasons. If I didn't have a camera already and was looking to Olympus, I fully imagine that I would go with the E-30 as it has almost all of the E-3 features and appears to benefit from a years worth of improvements in technology.

Particularly valuable to me would be the lack of banding at high ISO even if the E-30 doesn't provide any advantage in image quality at these settings. The E-30 is cheaper than the E-3 and can be used with a vertical grip.The only reason that I can see for myself, if I were to choose the E-3 - - - would be for its weather proofing (a good hunk of my professional shooting is in adverse conditions). I really don't know how the weather sealing would benefit 90% of photographers using dslr's for normal use. Most cameras we can buy from other manufacturers, don't have any weather sealing - - - and we'd be happy with them.

theMusicMan
18th December 2008, 09:48 PM
Curious that you're coming to Olympus from Nikon. Any reason you're not looking at the D700...?

Bear
18th December 2008, 10:23 PM
I certainly won't be trading my E3 for an E30. The E3 meets or surpasses my needs and/or expectations in every area. I might, if I have the cash available, trade my E510 back-up for and E30 to use for the same purpose.

Robert Watcher
18th December 2008, 10:35 PM
Curious that you're coming to Olympus from Nikon. Any reason you're not looking at the D700...?I switched back to Olympus last year and maintained both systems before purchasing the E-3 this spring with my choices being the D300 and E-3. After testing both cameras, it was a toss up which I chose, and so I went with my love of Olympus gear with the E-3 - - - the feel and the jpg colors and quality. The D3 and D700 came out later. Fact is that I am not interested in that price range of camera and the heavy investment in expensive glass that is expected with it. I would also need an additional D700 body as the D300 would not likely have been suitable for that.

I got the identical professional image results stylistically from my Olympus film and later my Nikon film cameras, my 2 heavily used Nikon D70's, my D200 and and up until a few months ago my D40 Nikon DSLR cameras - a D300, D700 or D3 would not change the look of my imagery one bit. I actually still use my E-510 on most of my professional assignments. I like small and compact. Other thing is that I could have some incredible Olympus glass that Nikon didn't have - and have it for less money. Just personal preference - - - I have nothing against Nikon or the D700. It's a nice camera and produces nice results at higher ISO's. Cameras and photo gear don't mean a whole lot to me - - - they are tools to get the job at hand done, and if they feel right in the process and don't fail me often then I'm happy.

CELESTAR
19th December 2008, 01:37 AM
Hi Barrie,
I am inclining more towards E-30 and I just need to pull back my impatience at not seeing one yet.
Coming from the electronics part of the profession, I got to think that E-30 can benefit from some more improvement. Also, the choice of the art filter is very attractive for me. You would think that E30 would be cheaper than E3 brand new but in Taiwan, the E3 price is keep tumbling down to almost insane level. Which further prompts me to think a newer improved E3 must be close to be released? Maybe a better LCD screen, perhap?
What is your opinion about the collection of lens I should consider?
Below is two groups, and I look forward to your comments if you can.

Group A:
12-60SWD
50-200SWD
70-300
150/2

Group B
14-42 (probably a kit lens with E30, I think)
40-150
70-300
150/2

I know pricing wise, the two group is not even close but the fact is that Oly consumer grade lens having such a rave review makes me ponder if I need to go for the high grade. The high grade lenses from Oly is not that much heavier so weight is not a factor of my consideration. It boils down to, if the additonal money is worthwhile to get back how much more image performance improvement, if any.

Bear
19th December 2008, 09:13 AM
Ignoring the 70-300 and 150 as they are psrt of both groups. The choice is 14-42 v 12-60 and 40-150 v 50-200. The kit lenses are fine in fact they are better than almost all other kit lenses on the market but they are built to a price. In every situation and by all performance metrics the 12-60 and 50-200 are better. They are both pro grade lenses with weather sealing, they are faster, they focus faster and quieter with the SWD motors and have superior optics. Plus the combo gives a the focal length range of 12-200 as aooposed to 14-150. Those extra mm do come in handy.

However, ultimately it is not about which are the better lenses. it is about do you think you can justify the extra cost for the extra performance. I could and did. I owned the 14-42 and 40-150 and was very pleased with the results. When I bought my E3 I upgraded to the 12-60 and 50-200 and was blown away by the performance in combination with the E3.

The decision is yours but I know what I would do - I did it !

Kiwi Paul
19th December 2008, 10:56 AM
I agree with Bear, I also bought the 12-60 and 50-200 after owning the kit lenses. The extra 2mm at the wide end gets used more than the extra 18mm at the top end which surprised me as I thought it was going to be the other way and the 2.8 min aperture is nice too, I have no regrets upgrading to the more expensive lenses.

Paul

Ian
19th December 2008, 12:20 PM
Curious that you're coming to Olympus from Nikon. Any reason you're not looking at the D700...?

I have no doubt that the Nikon D700 is a very fine camera, but it's a full frame camera and for all the benefits that brings, it also brings some notable disadvantages in size and weight.

Look at the Nikkor 24-120 f/3.5-5.6 - 77 x 94mm and 575g weight.

The equivalent Zuiko Digital 12-60 f/2.8-4.0 is 79.5 x 98.5mm, only marginally larger, and the same 575g in weight, but it's 2/3rds to a full stop brighter through the zoom range. The Olympus lens can also focus nearly a foot closer as well.

The Zuiko Digital 9-18mm f/4-5.6 is significantly shorter, lighter, and more slim than the equivalent Nikkor 18-35 f/3.5-4.5.

But it's in telephoto lenses that Four Thirds really makes a difference.

The ZD 50-200 f/2.8-3.5, at 995g (not including its tripod collar) is almost half a kilo lighter than the 80-400 f/4.5-5.6 Nikkor, and and yet the 50-200 is 1.3 stops brighter through the range.

If you thnk that's a big difference, how about the Zuiko Digital 40-150 f/4-5.6 compared to the Nikkor 70-300 f/4.5-5.6. The Nikkor measures 80 x 143.5mm, the Digital Zuiko is 65.5 x 72mm (half as long!) and the Nikkor weighs 745g compared to 220g (less than a third of the weight) for the Olympus lens - despite the Zuiko being a third of a stop faster at the short end of the zoom.

It goes on - compare the Zuiko Digital 150mm f/2 with the Nikkor 300mm f/2.8. The Zuiko is a stop brighter but at 1.465kg (minus tripod collar) it's practically half the weight of the Nikkor and it's 11.8cm shorter.

Total weight of a D700 with grip and 600mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S II NIKKOR, 7.4kg, compares with 4.6kg for an E-3 with grip and Zuiko Digital 300mm f/2.8 - and the Olympus outfit packs a lens with a whole stop extra brightness to boot. In fact the E-3 and lens is 1.3 kilos lighter than the Nikkor lens on its own. The total difference is over 6lbs and the Nikkor 600 is 16cm longer than the Zuiko 300.

Food for thought, eh? :)

Ian

kosta
19th December 2008, 12:55 PM
Hi Barrie,
I am inclining more towards E-30 and I just need to pull back my impatience at not seeing one yet.
Coming from the electronics part of the profession, I got to think that E-30 can benefit from some more improvement. Also, the choice of the art filter is very attractive for me. You would think that E30 would be cheaper than E3 brand new but in Taiwan, the E3 price is keep tumbling down to almost insane level. Which further prompts me to think a newer improved E3 must be close to be released? Maybe a better LCD screen, perhap?
What is your opinion about the collection of lens I should consider?
Below is two groups, and I look forward to your comments if you can.

Group A:
12-60SWD
50-200SWD
70-300
150/2

Group B
14-42 (probably a kit lens with E30, I think)
40-150
70-300
150/2

I know pricing wise, the two group is not even close but the fact is that Oly consumer grade lens having such a rave review makes me ponder if I need to go for the high grade. The high grade lenses from Oly is not that much heavier so weight is not a factor of my consideration. It boils down to, if the additonal money is worthwhile to get back how much more image performance improvement, if any.

I would consider following combination:
12-60 & 50-200 as all round lenses - I do have this two great lenses along with my E-3 and am really pleased with their performance. And the range 12-200 ( 24-400 ) it is offering is great for 95% of what i shoot.
and 150/2 with EC1.4x + EC2.0x for quality long focal length work ( it is my dreamed combination which I can not afford just yet, but in the future who knows...) small, light yet powerful kit compared to other system options. (300/2, 420/2.8, 600/4 all in less then 2kg - correct me if I am wrong) *inlove

kosta

P.S. Hello all of you fantastic 4/3 fa:D ns

mike_j
19th December 2008, 02:28 PM
I also had the two kit lenses and their upmarket equivalents. I thought the kit lenses would be the one used for normal day to day and holidys stuff as I like small and light equipment but in fact the 12-60 is rarely off the camera, and then only to make way for the 50-200. I have just given the 40-150mm away my son who is getting an e420 for Christmas since I used it so little.

One omission from your list is the superb 50mm macro - a very highly rated lens.

Glass is usually a better investment than bodies in the digital camera world I think

Derry
19th December 2008, 05:22 PM
I would look for a pre owned E3 as I see them in the $1050 range,, a new software update is forthcoming for the E3 and it will cover some of the E-30 items,,

Derry

Joop
22nd December 2008, 12:08 AM
I really don't know how the weather sealing would benefit 90% of photographers using dslr's for normal use. Most cameras we can buy from other manufacturers, don't have any weather sealing - - - and we'd be happy with them.
The weather sealing set people on the wrong foot so to speak. Also wet hands, wet forehead in summer or the dust in very dry air needs a system which is protected. I lost two complete sets because of the lack of seals. Formerly camera's where just more mechanic, today they are more electronic with very tiny components. A droplet of water was in former days not a problem, with today's components the wires are so close together that small droplets are enough for short circuiting. The very fine dust can penetrate the body and damage functions like IS, mirror mechanisms and so on. I don't know if people with cameras without weather sealing are happy.

Bear
22nd December 2008, 05:33 PM
I have had, on two separate occasions, been extremely grateful for the E3's weather sealing. both times I would certainly have lost a camera.

Kuzano
22nd December 2008, 05:56 PM
My thoughts on why E3 prices are falling.

Various considerations... all conjecture.

Many factors influencing reconsidered purchases of E3, without even considering the economy and it's effect on the money available for purchasing new camera equipment.

1) E30 replacing the E3 in a number of buyer considerations.
2) E3's popping up on used market as low as $800 with low shutter counts. (I'm surprised at how many are selling used E3's out of size consideration)
3) Many are putting off purchasing the E3, waiting for an anticipated successor to the E3, as soon as e30 hits marketplace. I doubt we will see plans for an E3 successor until after the M43 Olympus is introduced toward the middle/end of 2009.

I personally think Olympus is going to dedicate energy toward the Micro to play on the selling activity of the Panasonic G1. They would be very wise to reduce emphasis on a high end (high priced) cameras until we get through the worst of the financial crisis (2 years). Since they don't seriously want to compete with CANIKON in the professional market, it makes no sense to produce another expensive, heavy camera until people again have jobs and disposable income.

They may likely, and advisedly so, cater to the lower priced camera market, having the only compact, interchangable lens, large sensor camera in the market place. Once the M43 camera and the e30 are entrenched in the market place and selling well, and once the economy improves (if it does), it might be time to hit the high end again.

I'd imagine that an e4 replacement is about two years away, with an e40 coming before that.

ReggieB
22nd December 2008, 06:16 PM
The weather sealing set people on the wrong foot so to speak. Also wet hands, wet forehead in summer or the dust in very dry air needs a system which is protected. I lost two complete sets because of the lack of seals. Formerly camera's where just more mechanic, today they are more electronic with very tiny components. A droplet of water was in former days not a problem, with today's components the wires are so close together that small droplets are enough for short circuiting. The very fine dust can penetrate the body and damage functions like IS, mirror mechanisms and so on. I don't know if people with cameras without weather sealing are happy.

Usually failure of electronics due to water is a simple matter of corrosion on a board. If you open up the device, and clean the corrosion off, they will most likely operate just fine again. (this is pretty much what cell phone companies sell as refurbished goods after you drop yours in a pool and exchange it for an insurance replacement) That being said, I love the weather sealing on the E-3! Dust is big deal too, and it is nice to have a dust proof camera.

I would also recommend the PanaLeica 14-150mm. What amazing glass. Almost always long enough, rarely not wide enough. Since it was put on the camera, it hasn't come off, except to travel. And it takes gorgeous pictures. It took me a long time to decide to bite the bullet and order one, and I am glad that I finally did.

EDIT: I would recommend i-qju on eBay if you actually want the 14-150. Mine arrived super fast (4 business days) from Japan. And since it is a Japanese warranty, they will help you if you have a problem, send it back to them, and they will make a warranty claim on the lens with Panasonic.

Joop
22nd December 2008, 06:28 PM
My thoughts on why E3 prices are falling.
2) E3's popping up on used market as low as $800 with low shutter counts. (I'm surprised at how many are selling used E3's out of size consideration)

None, no price falling in Holland others than what Olympus offers. No second hand market for the E-3, there are a few E-1 from about 1/3 to 1/2 of the original price.

Ian
22nd December 2008, 06:41 PM
None, no price falling in Holland others than what Olympus offers. No second hand market for the E-3, there are a few E-1 from about 1/3 to 1/2 of the original price.

Just looked on eBay here in the UK and there are no used E-3s for sale from UK sellers.

Ian

ReggieB
22nd December 2008, 09:22 PM
Just looked on eBay here in the UK and there are no used E-3s for sale from UK sellers.

Ian

I see one listed on eBay that's used, in Philly. All the others are at least $1,200, up to over 2k

CELESTAR
26th December 2008, 06:54 AM
I would consider following combination:
12-60 & 50-200 as all round lenses - I do have this two great lenses along with my E-3 and am really pleased with their performance. And the range 12-200 ( 24-400 ) it is offering is great for 95% of what i shoot.
and 150/2 with EC1.4x + EC2.0x for quality long focal length work ( it is my dreamed combination which I can not afford just yet, but in the future who knows...) small, light yet powerful kit compared to other system options. (300/2, 420/2.8, 600/4 all in less then 2kg - correct me if I am wrong) *inlove

kosta

P.S. Hello all of you fantastic 4/3 fa:D ns

Hello all,
After selling off my entire Nikon D300 gear, I have just acquired (two hours ago) a brand new set of E-30 with 12-60 and 70-300 zoom. Plan on adding 50-200 SWD. I guess you can call, I have officially switched to Olympus! Quite an 'achievement' as I have been toying around Nikon and Cannon and this is the first time in Oly playground. According to local Taiwan store, I must be the first if not the really first person to own a production release E-30 because the shipment from Japan just arrived yesterday! Talking about a be-lated Christmas present.

Trying out a few shots with my lens at the store, this is really a great piece of hardware. I prefer this to E-3, because I think it suits my needs better. (Also, I am a believer of new electronics is always better than old one, not necessarily reliability wise)
At any rate, thanks for all the response in this website. I am ready to settle down and work on my photo skill!

Kuifje
26th December 2008, 10:26 AM
Congrats with the new gear, Yeah! Great Christmas gift .. and of course we all will be waiting here for the first results :D

Enjoy your gear, Martin

Ian
26th December 2008, 08:50 PM
Hello all,
After selling off my entire Nikon D300 gear, I have just acquired (two hours ago) a brand new set of E-30 with 12-60 and 70-300 zoom. Plan on adding 50-200 SWD. I guess you can call, I have officially switched to Olympus! Quite an 'achievement' as I have been toying around Nikon and Cannon and this is the first time in Oly playground. According to local Taiwan store, I must be the first if not the really first person to own a production release E-30 because the shipment from Japan just arrived yesterday! Talking about a be-lated Christmas present.

Trying out a few shots with my lens at the store, this is really a great piece of hardware. I prefer this to E-3, because I think it suits my needs better. (Also, I am a believer of new electronics is always better than old one, not necessarily reliability wise)
At any rate, thanks for all the response in this website. I am ready to settle down and work on my photo skill!

You've comfirmed reports that the E-30 is on sale in the Far East already :)

Here in the West we won't see the E-30 for a 2-3 weeks yet.

Ian